Peter Brown Family History

William Brown (1784) & Mary Tidey

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General History

William Brown & Mary Tidey were one of my 5th generation ancestors.

Key Dates:

William Brown was baptised on 18th January 1784 in Lingfield, Surrey. He was the son of Jacob Brown & Sarah Wicking. He married Mary Tidey on 19th June 1804 in Lingfield , Surrey. William died between 1829 and 1836.

Mary Tidey was baptised on 24th April 1785 in Limpsfield , Surrey, the daughter of William Tidey & Mary. Mary Brown married secondly Benjamin Curtis on 4th February 1837 in Horne, Surrey. Benjamin was buried on 30th July 1858 in Oxted, Surrey and Mary was buried on 14th June 1871 in Limpsfield, Surrey.

Children Returns to 'Top of Page'

William & Mary had nine known children:

Ann Mary William Elizabeth Sarah Jane Dinah Esther Thomas
  1. Anne Millicent Brown (Ann) was baptised on 30th December 1804 in Lingfield, Surrey. It is thought that she was buried on 30th April 1818 in Oxted Surrey (‘Ann, aged 15’).
  2. Mary Brown was baptised on 20th September 1807 in Lingfield, Surrey.
  3. William Brown was baptised on 8th April 1810 in Lingfield, Surrey. He married Jane Colegate. Details of William Brown & Jane Colegate are shown separately as they are direct ancestors.
  4. Elizabeth Brown was baptised on 21st November 1813 in Limpsfield, Surrey.
  5. Sarah Brown was baptised on 30th June 1816 in Oxted, Surrey.
  6. Jane Brown was baptised on 9th April 1820 in Oxted, Surrey. She had a child.
    1. Mary Ann Brown was born in about January 1841 and was baptised on 31st January 1841 in Oxted, Surrey. Mary lived with her Grandmother in 1851 & 1861. Mary married Jesse Kimber on 13th October 1858 in Pains Hill Chapel, Oxted, Surrey (a small Independent Evangelical Church, next to Limpsfield Common). Jesse Kimber was baptised on 31st July 1836 in West Hoathly, Sussex, the son of John Kimber & Mary Best. Mary & Jesse had five children including:
      1. William Kimber was born 10th March 1863 in Oxted, Surrey. He married Philadelphia Batemen from Westerham on 16th October 1886 in Oxted, Surrey and had children including:
        1. George Frederick Kimber was born on 6th September 1889 in Oxted, Surrey. George married Mary Ann Grint on 27th June 1914 in Briston,Norfolk and had children including
          1. Ralph William Kimber was born on 15th April 1924 in Melton Constable, Norfolk. Ralph married Gwendoline Ruth Morgan on 26th December 1946 in Melton Constable, Norfolk and had children including:
            1. Fay Ruth Kimber who provided most of this information. Fay Kimber is one of my 'Fourth Cousins once removed'.
  7. Dinah Brown was baptised on 12th January 1823 in Oxted, Surrey. Her parents lived at ‘Flint House’ at her birth.
  8. Esther Brown was born on 21st October 1826 at Merle Common,Oxted (shown as Merrel), and was baptised on 19th November 1826 in Pains Hill Chapel, Oxted, Surrey. She possibly married Charles Johnson on 27th December 1845 in Oxted, Surrey.
  9. Thomas Brown was baptised on 24th October 1829 in Oxted, Surrey. He was buried on 13th November 1831 in Oxted Surrey. He was born at ‘Murell Common, father a labourer, and he died at ‘Murell Common, aged 2’ (current name is Merle Common).

Personal History Returns to 'Top of Page'

No information available

Verification & Concerns Returns to 'Top of Page'

  1. There are some doubts over the Family Grouping and the parentage of both William Brown & Mary Tidey. A detailed analysis of all possible William Brown's and Mary Tidy's has been carried out to help resolve the issue.
  2. Firstly is the family grouping correct as this affects the possible birth year range of the parents?. The William Brown born in 1810 is definitely valid for the Family Tree but was part of a family that moved extensively. Issues arise around the family born over a number of parishes and  not being able to specifically identify the exact parents due to the choice of William Brown’s and Mary Tideys available. The family members could be flawed as they arise in different parishes. However daughter Elizabeth was born in Oxted, but christened in Limpsfield. Near Merle (Murell) Common all four parishes (Oxted, Crowhurst, Limpsfield & Lingfield) are connecting and identified locations are all within 2 miles of each other. No other "William and Mary's" have been located in these parishes, but neither have any burial records been located to confirm ages etc.
    The family members appear valid as a) There is a "Elizabeth Brown" who witnessed the marriage of William (1810) in  1829 (see copy of church records).(ie his sister), b) in the 1841 census a woman "Jane Brown" aged 20 was living with Son William Brown(1810) and his wife Jane, Again this would probably be his sister Jane, c) a child (Thomas) was born in Hurst Common and died in the same location (Murell Common, Oxted (modern name is Merle)) that the first child (Richard) of son WilliamBrown (1810) was born. (Alternatively the Elizabeth could refer to his aunt who was the mother of the other William Brown(1801) who lived in the same area.).It is assumed that both Mary and William were living in the Lingfield parish as the church records state that they were from the parish and do not indicate that either came from elsewhere for the marriage. However they  need not necessarily have been born there as they could have moved there after birth.
  3. Assuming the family details are correct  then there were two William Brown's born in Lingfield and sixteen possible others born in the surrounding parishes between 1769 - 1788. (age at marriage of 16 to age 60 at birth of youngest child). Allowing for identified marriages and deaths reduces the number of possibles to two in Lingfield and seven in surrounding parishes, (but there are none in adjacent parishes). As William's wife was probably only nineteen at marriage it is also likely that he was young too. If it is assumed his maximum age at marriage was 27 then there were four possibles.
  1. 18/1/1784 born in Lingfield the son of Jacob & Sarah Brown (who also had a lot of relatives living in Limpsfield-see Jacob Brown 1754)
  2. 16/8/1785 born in Lingfield the son of Samuel & Mary Brown. He was baptised William Henry but would only be 17 at the marriage date. Samuel did not come from Lingfield or any surrounding parishes. It is thought that they may have moved to Withyham as a "Lydia Brown", same name as a daughter, was married there on 1st December 1814.
  3. 8/9/1783 born in Burstow
  4. 6/8/1786 born in Charlwood, but would be only 16 at marriage date

The most likely William is the one chosen, ie the son of Jacob & Sarah (born 18th January 1784) and this is supported by large number of relatives living in the same area, but there is still a possibility that it could be wrong..

  1. Assuming the family details are correct then for the period 1779 - 1788. (age at marriage of 16 to age 50 at birth of youngest child), there were two possible Mary Tidey’s born in the surrounding parishes.There were no Mary Tidey’s born in Lingfield from 1760-1790. Either Mary would be possible. The first one would be slightly more likely as two of her children had the same names as her sisters (Sarah, Jane), whilst no similar link can be established with the other family. However this link is obviously extremely tenuous (but see below).
    1. 24/4/1785 born in Limpsfield daughter of William & Mary (both parents were buried in Limpsfield so did not move parishes)
    2. 19/06/1785 born in Oxted daughter of Daniel & Rose
  2. Census
    1. 1841 Census: No record found of a William or a Mary Brown in the main parishes . No record found for any of the children besides William and Jane (who was living with William- see William Brown 1810.)
    2. The 1841 census shows a Benjamin Curtis living next to or with William Brown and Jane (son of Mary- see William Brown 1810.). Mary Curtis is shown as a Nurse in the household of a farmer on the night of the census.
    3. In 1851 census Mary Curtis is shown living in 'Marrolds Common' aged 66 born in Limpsfield with her granddaughter Mary Ann Brown (aged 10) and husband Benjamin (aged 62).
    4. In 1861 census Mary Curtis is shown as grandmother aged 76 from Limpsfield, living in 'Merrold Common' with Mary Ann Kimber (aged 20) & Jesse Kimber.

It is therefore extremely likely that Mary Tidey's parents were William & Mary from Limpsfield.

Documents Returns to 'Top of Page'

Certificates & Official Records

Sources Returns to 'Top of Page'
  1. Sussex Parish Registers – Ardingly, Bolney, Chailey, Crawley, Cuckfield, Ditchling, East Grinstead, Fletching, Horsted Keynes, Hartfield, Ifield, Lindfield,  Maresfield, Newick, Rotherfield, Slaugham, West Hoathly, Withyham, Worth
  2. Surrey Parish Registers – Bletchingly(some), Burstow, Caterham , Charlwood, Crowhurst, Godstone, Horley, Horne, Limpsfield, Lingfield, Nutfield, Oxted, Rusper, Tandridge
  3. Kent Parish Registers – Ashurst, Cowden, Edenbridge, Speldhurst
  4. The Weald –Sussex Record Society
  5. British Isles Vital Record Index- Family Search
  6. Census Records - 1841, 1861, 1871 - British Origins Web site
  7. Census Records - 1851- Godstone District CD
  8. Census Records - 1881 Family Search CD
  9. Census Records - 1901- National Archives
  10. Surrey Marriage Index CD
  11. Sussex Marriage Index CD
  12. FREEBMD (Index of birth, marriages, deaths post 1837)
  13. Family Search.org  (Latter day Saints): For initial identification of details only
  14. Surrey Burial Index CD
  15. Fay Kimber who is a descendant.(favid.woods@btopenworld.com)
  16. Sussex Family History Group - Baptism records