Peter Brown Family History

Thomas Payne (1440) & Agnes

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General History

The Mid Sussex Paynes are primarily based in the parishes of East Grinstead, West Hoathly & Ardingly, but with some additions in Balcombe, Lindfield & Cuckfield. They lived mainly in an area about 6 miles wide and 9 miles long with East Grinstead town in the North at the top centre. To the far east is Ashurstwood (with Pickstones and Wallhill towards Forest Row). South east of East Grinstead the Paynes occupied farms in a big arc starting with Brambletye (Horseshoe & Busses) to Plawhatch, Legsheath , Monkshill, Maules (or Mayes), Walesbeech (not on map) and, later, Charlwoods. Then extending south and west to Stonelands near West Hoathly, Hapset (or Hapstead) in Ardingly to West Hill & Stoneplace which are closer to Balcombe than Ardingly. This is not including those Paynes who were in Cuckfield and Wickham in Lindfield . (Other named places (but not shown on map) are The Lodge & Liod in Ardingly & Blackwell in East Grinstead).
There appears to be three distinctive groups of Paynes. "Paynes of the Town" based in East Grinstead town and East, "Paynes of Plawhatch" in the farms of the south and "Paynes of Stoneland" based around Ardingly. All these groups are certainly interlinked but the links are still unclear so they are currently shown as three separate Family Groupings.To provide the overall picture, the groups have been mapped to about the mid 1600's but there are omissions and a number of assumptions making it difficult to get an accurate comprehensive understanding.

There are additional Payne Families in Hickstead (Twineham) and in the Eastbourne area and it is thought that these with the Mid Sussex Paynes all interlink (see John Howes Payne History papers).

THE STRUCTURE BELOW IS STILL EVOLVING and is probably wrong in parts.

It is an initial attempt to document the early paynes of the area and a large amount of guesswork is involved

 

Thomas Payne & Agnes was possibly one of my 16th generation ancestors.

Thomas Payne was probably born in about 1440 in possibly in Ardingly, Sussex . He was maybe possibly the son of Richard Payne of Twineham (source 1). He is recorded (see Archives item 1) with his wife Agnes as holding land called Myddylhorscroft in Ardingly in 1467 and also some adjacent land called Horscroft (Note: Horscroft is in Hapset). A later document of 1556 ties in John Payne, the great grandson of Thomas Payne to Ardingly (see Archives item 4). In 1489 Thomas and his son Richard were involved in the sale of land called Gebers (or Clevers) to John Michelbourne (see Archives item 5) and Thomas was shown as of Lindfield.

Later generations occupied a number of properties in the Ardingly area. These are Liode, Lodge, Hapset, Berry, Withy, Hickpotts, Birstye and Stone form an essentially a single group of linked properties in Ardingly, with Busses, Ludwell & Stoneland to the north and Wickham close by to the south in Lindfield. In addition there is Stone Place & Westhill towards Balcombe. (Liod is now known as Lywood and north of that are Lower & Middle Lodge).

Paynes were in East Grinstead in the 14th century but it is difficult to connect these to later members of the family. William Pain was taxed in East Grinstead at £3.00 in 1327 and again in 1333 for William Payn at £4 9s and again in the Nonae roll of 1340 for 1s 6d. There was a John Payn of Greensted in Sussex, a debtor to William ate Fold, fishmonger of London in 1341(Court of Chancery C/241/119/88) (Source 1).

Children Returns to 'Top of Page'

Thomas Payne maybe possibly had four children, probably more. There is nothing however tieing in the following children to Thomas.

  1. Robert Payne was maybe possibly born about 1460 in Ardingly, Sussex. He is recorded (see Archives item 2) in the Sussex fines in about 1500. Details of Robert Payne are shown separately .
  2. Richard Payne was maybe possibly born about 1470 in Ardingly, Sussex. He is recorded (see Archives item 2) and being involved with a sale of land in 1514. He is shown in the Lay subsidy Rolls of 1524/25 in the Hundred of Strete as Richard Payne senior and as being taxed on assets worth £2. Details of Richard Payne are shown separately as they are direct ancestors.
  3. Henry Payne was maybe possibly born about 1470 in Ardingly, Sussex. He is recorded (see Archives item 2) and being involved with a sale of land in 1514. He is shown in the Lay subsidy Rolls of 1524 in the Hundred of Strete as being taxed on assets worth £5. Details of Henry Payne are shown separately .
  4. John Payne was maybe possibly born about 1480 in possibly Ardingly, Sussex. He is shown in the Lay subsidy Rolls of 1524 in the Hundred of Strete as being taxed on assets worth £8. He later maybe possibly lived in Horseshoe Farm, Brambletye, East Grinstead, Sussex and is shown as of Brambletye. Details of John Payne are shown separately as they are direct ancestors.

 

Personal History Returns to 'Top of Page'

No information available

Verification & Concerns Returns to 'Top of Page'

In the "Hundred of Lyndefeld Arch" taxation subsidy Rolls there are four Paynes who have not been mapped to a family group. These are Richard, Thomas, Thomas, Richard
Documents Returns to 'Top of Page'

Wills:

Archives:

  1. Grant  ADD MSS/51,807  6 June 1467. These documents are held at West Sussex Record Office
    Contents:
    (a) John Bakshelve of Ardingly
    (b) Thomas Payn of Ardingly and Agnes his wife
    One piece of land in Ardingly of which one part lies in the former marlpit of (a) in the eastern corner of his field called the Horscroft abutting on a croft of land of Thomas Payne called the Myddylhorscroft (1.5r and 0.3r)
    Witnesses: Richard Byrchenstye, William Jurdan, Richard Newenham, Richard Wodye and Thomas Lynder
  2. Sussex Fines
    1. Henry VII 3265. (period 1485-1509) Robert Payn and John Payn the younger, son of said Robert, v. Thomas Alfrey and Margery his wife; a messuage in
      Estgrenested ; to Robert and John and heirs of Robert.
  3. Feoffment  Add Mss 17417  10 December 1514. These documents are held at West Sussex Record Office
    Contents: From (a) John Michylburne of Erdyngleygh to (b) Thomas sone of Nicholas Culpepyr formerly of Ardingly, esq., Thomas Brygges, Richard Payne, Henry Payne bro. of N. Cylpepyr, Thomas Bykham and Edward Summer. Ashcombe in Westhothleygh (West Hoathly) Acc. 2439
  4. A document dated 1556-1558 from the Court of Chancery (C/1/1462/12) which concerns a messuage and land in Ardingly. The case is between “John, great grandson of Thomas Payn v John Wheler and Thomas Lutman” This John can be identified as John of Hapstead . This also fixes Thomas and Agnes as the first occupiers of land in Ardingly.
  5. Title Deeds of a messuage, farm and lands called Clevers (Cleavers) alias Glevers in Cuckfield  Add Mss 30845-30876  1488-1736.These documents are held at West Sussex Record Office. 32 Deeds.
    Contents
    :  Original bundle 2 Including the following:- 24 March 1488. Quitclaim from
    (a) Richard Payn, son of Thomas Payn of Lindfield, to
    (b) John Michelbourne alias John Mascall of Wivelsfield
    All claims to lands, tenements and gardens called Glebers in Cuckfield which (a) and others lately had of the gift of William Gleber
Sources Returns to 'Top of Page'
  1. John Howes who has written a number of papers on the history of Paynes in Sussex
  2. West Sussex and East Sussex record offices- Archive searches via National Archives
  3. Book of Bartholomew Bolney (Sussex Record Society)
  4. History of East Grinstead by WALLACE HENRY HILLS,1906